Loot rules for Dar Narbugud

The current, informal loot system has worked well with the Turtle and Warden, which are single-boss raids, but we need a slightly more sophisticated system for Dar Narbugud and its six end bosses, who drop the six tier 2 armour items. Now that we are about to begin regular weekly DN raids, it seems a good time to implement this. I am therefore proposing a very simple system, a combination of Dragon Points and Suicide Kings.

For every attempt on Dar Narbugud, all participants will receive one (1) Dragon Point. This means you get one point every time the raid goes into the instance, not one per evening; this allows for the possibility of somebody dropping out and being replaced after a wipe. Every time an end boss is killed and armour coins drop, rolling for these will be restricted to participants with the highest number of DPs (and who don’t, of course, already have that armour item). If you win the coin, you lose 3 DPs; this means that if you don’t already have three of them, you can actually go negative for a while.

All items other than armour coins are rolled for in the normal manner, and do not cost any DPs. However, teal items will be rolled for before the armour coins, and as usual, winning such an item will bar you from rolling for the armour coins.

The same rules will apply to non-kinnies and other guests participating in the raid.

Please comment and discuss before these rules are finalised on Thursday.

Sounds fair, however:

For every attempt on Dar Narbugud, all participants will receive one (1) Dragon Point. This means you get one point every time the raid goes into the instance, not one per evening; this allows for the possibility of somebody dropping out and being replaced after a wipe.

Could you please elaborate on that, when and on what condition is a DP added? If we wipe on a boss, do we get another DP since we are effectively entering it again?

Also, one possible flaw I can see in this system is that if we don't have enough people or someone drops out and we have to find replacements from FOTW for example, people may be reluctant to join if they are excluded from rolling on coins due to not having raided with us before.

You get one point for every attempt on the entire instance, successful or not; in effect one point every time you enter the instance (though we might exclude cases of instant, immediate wipes due to something really silly). So you get one point for going in the first time, then a second one if we wipe and you stay with the raid; and so forth.

As far as replacements from FOTW are concerned, they would be treated exactly as any kin member, and start accumulating DPs for themselves. The point, after all, is to give a slight edge (though not an overwhelming advantage) to those players who are regulars, and who help pioneer the raid. Newcomers to the raid, whether FOTW or kinnies, might not get a chance at an armour coin on their very first attempt (though after a while, the boots may well be going begging), but they will have a good chance of doing so if they come along again in future, they will start learning the fight for themselves, and of course they will have an equal chance of winning other items, including 1st-age LI tokens.

Next problem is a player - What about alts? Do u recive point for all your charcters, or only for one? What about switching, becouse "Your alt is needed here". If we will recive point for each encounter it also do not have sense. We have group that will 4x wipes, and groupd that will kill boss at first time. Is this means that 1st group will get 4 points? I dont get it.  I think that for now raiding group to DN is so small that we dont need any loot system, and our kindest and good mind is enough, but maybe I am idealist

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Clodvig aka Gifford // Gifford aka Clodvig

wish I had time right now to respond.

two quick things, keep discussion civil pls
second, dont be afraid to give your opinion, all points will be considered.

You get one point for every attempt on the entire instance, successful or not; in effect one point every time you enter the instance (though we might exclude cases of instant, immediate wipes due to something really silly). So you get one point for going in the first time, then a second one if we wipe and you stay with the raid; and so forth.

I see now. However, it seems a bit strange that wiping multiple times at a boss would bring you more DP than killing it on the 1st try. I personally would suggest giving 1 DP for joining the raid in the first place and then 1 DP for each boss killed. This way people who have the boots, for example, would have more incentive to help killing the troll twins. I think we adopted a similar loot system in our late Rift runs, where killing a boss that you didn't need gave you an extra roll on something you actually need.

My spontaneous reaction is that this sounds like a great system - very nicely balanced. I'd like to second Clodvig's question regarding alts, however. I think I'd prefer if the points were tied to the player, and not their characters. It makes more sense, and allows the player to 'win' coins for their alts as well, if they are required for a specific raid. I think most people would prefer to prioritise the coins going to mains, but I don't feel it's something we should enforce in this case; the alts are there when asked for, after all, so they should be allowed to roll for any loot they want. As for the points being awarded, awarding one for joining the raid, then one for each boss you take down sounds preferable to one point for each 'wipe'. I don't have an idea at the present for how to reward points for attempts.

But I'm very positive to the suggested system, overall, but I'll keep an eye on the discussion, and will return if something crosses my mind.

I would be very much against one point per enter. As Ertana says it would make wipes profitable and also gives a huge advantage to people who are joining on the first runs (as wipes are more frequent). I'd suggest give one point to everyone who participated that night (including replacements) and one point to everyone who is in the raid at the end (rewarding people for not dropping out and rewarding replacements for coming along until the end). To keep thing balanced the price of a coin should go up to 4 or 5 then too.

Second suggestion is to introduce a point cap somewhere around 6 runs worth of points. Why? Imagine a FotW member who joins once in a while but got armour piece 1-3 from other raids. This likely is an experienced and valuable player, but he has zero chance of ever getting more points than our regular raiders, so no chance of getting piece nr 4, until the whole raid has already got it. If you would introduce a cap, he would know that after joining 6 raids, he'd have a fair chance at coin nr 4.
Edit: A nice bonus is that this also stops inflation of points, which can be very discouraging for new members.

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Ingaras, Hunter (75)
Indo, Minstrel (81)
Celefindel, Loremaster (115)
Magolisto, Champion (75)

and some others...

Please keep the suggestions and comments coming. I'll try to redraw the proposal in the light of these on Monday.

what about the option that everyone who doesnt win an armour piece during a complete run ( i.e all 6 bosses down) gets an additional point at the end? that way thoses that regulary raid will have a slight advantage over the ones ( like me) that will try it from time to time. I know this will ake it slightly difficult for infrequent raiders but it means thoses that attempt it every week with the kin wont feel as frustrated?

Need new sig