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+--- Thread: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud (/showthread.php?tid=3414)
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Marcelon - 15 Sep, 09
A simple yet elegant solution to the problem, I like it! One thing I would say though, might it be sensible to place a cap on the number of rerolls allowed? 2 seems like a good number to me since it gives more chance of winning but doesn't drag the whole thing out while someone is desperately trying to claim an item for themselves. It would help with keeping tracking of what's going on as well. You could split the important looting points into 3 phases so you have the rolls rerolls last throw of the dice. That final phase would also give people a chance to respond if their own roll has been beaten in phase 2.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Kindo - 15 Sep, 09
(15 Sep, 09, 12:25)Marcelon link Wrote: A simple yet elegant solution to the problem, I like it! One thing I would say though, might it be sensible to place a cap on the number of rerolls allowed? 2 seems like a good number to me since it gives more chance of winning but doesn't drag the whole thing out while someone is desperately trying to claim an item for themselves. It would help with keeping tracking of what's going on as well. You could split the important looting points into 3 phases so you have the rolls rerolls last throw of the dice. That final phase would also give people a chance to respond if their own roll has been beaten in phase 2.
I agree with this suggestion. A cap would definitely be healthy, and a maximum of two rolls (at the very most three) would be ideal.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Belegwe - 15 Sep, 09
Tbh I'd be against introducing too many phases as it will just complicate matters. The way I envisioned it was that you can buy as many rolls as you have points for, but you have to state how many extra rolls you are using, so you can't just keep adding more. Here's an example:
Step 1
Everyone in the raid rolls once for the armour piece.Step 2.) Three people opt to spend points to gain extra rolls. They each state how many rolls they are buying.
Step 3.) The extra rolls are used and a winner is determined. No extra rolls can be bought now.
The reason I'd like to see people be able to use all their points is because there may be something that they really want e.g. that one last armour piece and the idea is to help people complete their sets. Of course if you use up every point you have then you will need to build up your pool of points again so unless you really really want something you are unlikely to use more than one or two extra rolls. It also means that if someone does use say five points in one go to buy five extra rolls they will have had to have gone along on five raids, which means they have earned the right to do that and it also means they can't repeat that the next week.
Is it unfair that someone might choose to re-roll five times? Not really as I see it. For one thing you state upfront that you are buying five extra rolls. You have to use them all so if your first extra roll is 100 then tough luck you just wasted the other four. That's another factor that should make people pause and think whether they really want to use so many extra rolls. However, it does mean that someone who has gone along week after week and has failed to get that one last piece of armour can effectively 'swamp' the roll for it so as to give themselves a great chance of winning it. That seems fair to me. It also encourages people to keep coming back even if they fail to win an item a few weeks in a row because they can work towards gaining enough points to 'swamp' the roll.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Thoronthor - 15 Sep, 09
another option I have seen other kinships use is to add points to one roll.
So instead of your normal /roll if you have 10 points you do /roll 110 giving you more chance at higher numbers, if you dont reset the numbers until someone wins something eventually they will have so many points not winning a roll is almost impossible.
The advantage here is that people only need to know their amount of points at the begging of the raid and add those to 100, it may take awarding a few more points per raid to balance it out but it would be an incredibly simple system where everyone only rolls once on each item. (and always have the option not to roll on something they dont want)
After that it is a simple process of resetting the points of those that won something and adding points to those who went without. I'm sure ingaras can build a tool for that fairly easily (note that there is already a system to count points per account, just might need an easier interface)
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Belegwe - 15 Sep, 09
That certainly has the option of being simple Thor. I like the idea of making it as simple as possible so kudos for that. However, as you say it would probably involve awarding more points so that people could actually make use of the system within a reasonable amount of time otherwise it could be months before anyone sees any real benefit from it.
Why don;t we put the various options we have identified so far in this thread into a poll and let people choose?
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Ertana - 15 Sep, 09
Adding points to /roll is a very elegant option, I like it as well. Perhaps in that case a person could have an option - either use his "regular" or "special" roll on an item. If you win with a regular /roll 100, your bonus points are not reset.
Another thing to consider is the balancing of points awarded - if you get to roll twice, you chances of winning are basically doubled, but if you do /roll 110, your chance is only 10% more, so we would need to be quite liberal with awarding points.
I'd say that this system is a bit more difficult to set up because we would need to devise the points awards, but when it is up and running, it can be more smooth and elegant than the one with extra rolls.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Ingaras - 15 Sep, 09
(15 Sep, 09, 14:44)Thoronthor link Wrote: another option I have seen other kinships use is to add points to one roll.
So instead of your normal /roll if you have 10 points you do /roll 110 giving you more chance at higher numbers, if you dont reset the numbers until someone wins something eventually they will have so many points not winning a roll is almost impossible.
That's exactly the kind of system I've been thinking about, but imho it's a lot harder to get a right balance of amount of points/chance.ÃÂ For example a /roll 200 would have 50% chance of a 'guaranteed win' ( > 100), on top of the normal 8% chance of winning a /roll 100... Hmm... been a while since my last statistics classes. Also I think you're suggesting resetting points while Belegwe allows using them on multiple items if I'm reading it correctly.
(15 Sep, 09, 14:44)Thoronthor link Wrote: After that it is a simple process of resetting the points of those that won something and adding points to those who went without. I'm sure ingaras can build a tool for that fairly easily (note that there is already a system to count points per account, just might need an easier interface)
Yup, interface right now is as general as possible, because we didn't have any point system to build it for, so improvements can be made there.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Thoronthor - 15 Sep, 09
(15 Sep, 09, 15:16)Ertana link Wrote: Adding points to /roll is a very elegant option, I like it as well. Perhaps in that case a person could have an option - either use his "regular" or "special" roll on an item. If you win with a regular /roll 100, your bonus points are not reset.I think we call that a greed roll
And no, you could use your points on every need roll until you win something. I think belegwe also suggested resetting once you win something.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Belegwe - 15 Sep, 09
Under the system I proposed once you buy an extra roll the point you used is gone. So if you don't win something it's tough luck, you lost the point. The idea with my system is to give regular participants an advantage when rolling for items they really need/want rather than giving them an advantage on every loot roll. That way casual participants have a good chance of winning something whilst regular participants have a good chance of gaining the few remaining items they need. It should be noted that my system would allow points to be used to buy extra rolls on ANY loot item, not just armour points. If you're not interested in the armour pieces you can buy extra rolls to win random jewellery drops, gold leaves, etc.
Re: Loot rules for Dar Narbugud - Belegwe - 15 Sep, 09
Another possible system we could use:
We use a simple roll for all loot. Every member of the raid is allowed to roll once on every item dropped that evening. Once you win one teal item that evening you can't roll for another of course.
However, we add in an extra dimension that says if someone has come consistently x number of times without winning any armour pieces he/she is granted two rolls on all armour pieces that evening until he/she wins one. If he/she wins an armour piece that evening his/her rolls would revert to normal the next week, if not he/she would continue to get double rolls until he/she won an armour piece. This could also be used for those who only need one armour piece; if that person had failed to win it after x number of tries they would get double rolls for that piece of armour.
Advantages:
Simple as no points are involved.
The only thing to be tracked is whether someone is on double rolls.
Mitigates chance of someone consistently not winning anything by doubling their chances.
Disadvanatges:
Doesn't necessarily give an incentive for people to participate regularly.